AuraKnight
Starter
Evil is such a strong word...
Posts: 13
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Post by AuraKnight on Jun 4, 2011 5:05:45 GMT -5
Oh cool, you do have good points. I couldn't see any myself, then again I doubt you'd be so confident without some good points behind them.
However, I'm finding this quite fun, I don't think I'll give up yet. Sorry Link!
Alright, let's see here:
1. Gary being a Professor simply means that he has moved on from wanting to be the best trainer, into something constructive for the community. In my eyes, this is one of the main reasons that he is a better person than Ash, he's been able to gain this character development that Ash, as the main character, will never keep. He may gain some, but he will always revert back to his old self.
The second point is a matter of opinion. Ash is creative with his moves, and bends the anime physics to his will, whereas Gary uses actual type advantages and other skills which are rock solid. It should also be noted that Ash's skills range from brilliant (Ironically, the key example is Ash vs Gary in the Silver Conference) to suicidal (Thunder Armour much?) that I would prefer Gary's way of battling than Ash's. Also keep in mind that Ash has plot luck on his side...
This next bit I will not contest. Ash has been caring to his Pokemon throughout, whereas Gary...well, we haven't seen much of him, but from what we have seen he seems fairly average.
Moving back to the original question, I would say that Ash is the better trainer, Gary is the better battler, and Gary is the better person. Therefore, in my own opinion, my vote for Gary is justified.
I don't want this to erupt again (apparently it already has) but I'm interested in what you have to say about it.
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Post by No.8//Xannta on Jun 4, 2011 6:19:32 GMT -5
I'm gonna copy the OP for this thread onto the new forum and you guys can continue to argue on there haha.
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Post by budgetspaner on Jun 4, 2011 10:06:55 GMT -5
Wow, great analysis AuraKnight. But i think differently about Garys Character development. I am not sure if you watch the newer series, but i feel like the got rid of Gary to make room for other rivals such as Paul which in my opinion is like the combination of Gary and Ash. This is because he has the knowledge of pokemon that Gary has, but has the natural talent at battling that Ash has as well as the caring for his pokemon (Though Paul has more of a tough love relationship between him and his pokemon). There are also rivals of may and dawn as well which i think is pretty hilarious. Harley is SO Funny XD. Well if you haven't watched the newer generations that was probably total dribble, but anyway, Gary's character was matured really well (even though he is now a professor at the age of ten XD) but i see it as a way of making room for new characters. Also it isn't important, i just realized and wanted to put it out there. In the Gary vs Ash battle at the silver conference Gary uses anime logic as well. Think about when Charizard was flying around and Blastoise was shooting Hydro Pump again and again at him. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE, Hydro Pump has a max PP of 8 XD Also just to put another person on Ash's side ... Who is the Pokemon Master in PTD ... Ash. Is gary??? NO!!! Therefore Sam thinks that Ash is a better pokemon trainer.
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AuraKnight
Starter
Evil is such a strong word...
Posts: 13
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Post by AuraKnight on Jun 4, 2011 20:42:51 GMT -5
((This is less of a counterargument than it is my own analysis of the rivals sorry, just how it kinda turned out. I'm pretty sure we've more or less reached level ground, at any rate.))
I haven't seen much of DP because Dawn ARGH but I've seen a lot of Frontier, all of BW and bits of Advanced. I agree that Gary was put aside so that Ash could...well, tbh most of advanced was really about May with Ash just being the main character, but only in the sense that Ash didn't have much that he had to consistently overcome until Battle Frontier and constantly trying to beat Brandon. May always had Drew and eventually Harley (Who gets thumbs up for doing something Nintendo tried to do and failed - make a Wigglytuff intimidating) to overcome.
From what I've seen with Paul I thought he was supposed to emulate the competitive gamer, in that he only cared for the strongest of the pokemon. Then again I only saw the first bit of the series because I really, really didn't like Dawn much. But that's off-topicing, I presume that Paul got better by the end?
Trip's (I think it's Trip? I only watch the subbed version sorry) actually a lot like old Gary except less of an all-round jerk. As with most things in the BW saga, it's oddly familiar to the first season. Won't go into details much as I'm not sure how much of the season you've seen but I'd put him as a better midway point between Ash and Gary. He's got an elitist attitude behind him but he's also like Ash in a lot of ways.
Looking back at it all, Gary's story has had a beginning, middle, and end. He started the same day as Ash, got his Squirtle that no-one heard of again until the silver league conference, and went off being an absolute jerk to Ash, acting as a constant roadblock to the kid. The ending isn't with him settling down in Sinnoh to take after his grandfather's profession, that's more of a epilogue. The real ending is at the silver conference, where Ash comes over the roadblock and beats him. After that, Gary's served his purpose, and his story pretty much ends there. This does mean he's replaced, we can both agree on that (First by Drew, then Paul, then Trip) however, as we both found out, his story continued over in the Sinnoh region, in the aforementioned epilogue.
Honestly this is why I've still got the end of Master Quest. This combined with Misty's last episode is some of the best the anime's ever produced.
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Post by budgetspaner on Jun 5, 2011 1:39:15 GMT -5
I have seen a lot of DP and none of black and white (Yet), and i agree with you totally, Dawn is annoying. She is like a crappy version of May as well as her wearing that incredibly short skirt. Its like Nintendo is trying to bring up the new generation of pokemon lovers to be perverts. But i can't wait to watch black and white. Cilian seems AWESOME, plus i have seen on bulbapedia that ash is catching more pokemon which is fixing one of the flaws that Link and ajshoes were saying about ash. Also Harley is cool Paul is defiantly the competitive gamer but he did care for all of his pokemon but didn't really show it much. Though from the episodes that i have seen he cares for all of his pokemon, especially his Torterra, who helped Ash's Grotle when it evolved from Turtwig even though Paul didn't want it to. Though it is obviously that he isn't the most caring person in the world, i still think he does care for all his pokemon. ;D I searched up Trip, He looks like a AWESOME rival. AND HE HAS A TIMBURR XD now i want to watch all the pokemon episodes again i am going to use up SO much internet downloading it all
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AuraKnight
Starter
Evil is such a strong word...
Posts: 13
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Post by AuraKnight on Jun 5, 2011 2:08:01 GMT -5
Trip's alright. Seems like Paul got better from what I've seen, and I already stated my opinion on Gary, but he's up there. Yeah I'm pretty sure Ash has already caught more pokes than what he has in pretty much any region so far. We're almost 40 episode in and I think he's up to 8 not including Pikachu? But yeah they reset everything much everything, and kind of remodelled it on the original series. Yet to see an episode I truly hated, although some of Iris' backstories are very meh. Cilan is hilarious imo, what with being competent and incompetent at the same time. Oshawott is the greatest. So melodramatic But yeah I definitely recommend BW and wow I'm really getting off topic here. Probably should stop it here and make a new thread/find an anime general thread.
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Post by 401891 on Jun 5, 2011 2:14:36 GMT -5
I'm with the whole 'Ash is a stupid little kid' idea. Don't argue with it. That's just how he is.
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Post by budgetspaner on Jun 5, 2011 2:57:26 GMT -5
But the arguement isn't about whether he is a stupid little kid or not, it is who is the better trainer. Gary or Ash. You haven't stated who you think it is. Therefore your argument is invalid
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Post by Bagon on Jun 5, 2011 3:39:28 GMT -5
He is right.
*EDIT* BudgetSpaners right.
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Post by budgetspaner on Jun 5, 2011 3:41:01 GMT -5
could you be more specific with "he"
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mewthree
Gym Leader
MEWTHREE!
Posts: 160
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Post by mewthree on Jun 5, 2011 19:46:13 GMT -5
How is Gary winning!?! By now, Ash could beat all Gary's pokemon with pikachu in 1 hit!
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Post by colepower16 on Jun 6, 2011 16:36:30 GMT -5
Just because gary never trained his pokemon doesn't mean that he doesn't win as much. Ash trained his pokemon because he knew that he would lose the first time and that's why he trained his pokemon rather than catching them strong like gary. By the bw series ash's pikachu should probably be at a really high level live 50 or 100 or so and we haven't seen much of gary like we have of ash. And don't forget that gary probably has gotton a lot stronger since we last seen him
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YukiiTan
Gym Leader
~Devilish Skigglygasbliss~
Posts: 196
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Post by YukiiTan on Jun 6, 2011 19:22:30 GMT -5
Garyyyy x3!!!!! <3
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Post by wartortlelover on Jun 6, 2011 19:48:32 GMT -5
the best trainer is You!!!!!(game player) you beat everyone, so YOU are the best trainer
A > Gary S > Gary H > Gary ASH > G > A > R > Y > GARY ASH >>>>>>>> Gary
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Post by lyn on Jun 6, 2011 23:00:19 GMT -5
Gary is awesomesauce and he has fashion sense. He is a better person, a better trainer and a better battler. He is better even as a man. Lol. Even his game theme (if you consider him at Yellow version) is better. Gary is very capable at making a Pokémon happy. See Umbreon's case: It evolves with high happiness. Indeed, he also shows his potent love for Pokémon when he decides to become a Researcher. In my humble opinion, people work with something they might like or love. If Gary wants to study Pokémon, he wants to understand its feelings and how they live. Gary is like an angel. Ash's Charizard just defeated Gary's Blastoise because Blastoise was tired of that bullsh*t and decided to rest a bit (look at its face after the Seismic Toss! It almost yawned!). Poor Ash, he though he was better than Gary just because of Gary and Blastoise's benevolence. Ash is so self-centered. In fact, Ash is just jealous of Gary's cheerleaders. He worships Gary because he is awesome. Ash just went to Johto because Gary also did it. Same goes to Hoenn and Sinnoh. Lololol. Plus! Gary won more girls' hearts than Ash. He is more charming then. About Ash? He is just... herp derp.
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